Comments on: Lawyers as a Community? http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/ Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:59:11 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Luis http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-20 Luis Sun, 19 Jul 2009 03:50:18 +0000 http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-20 Beware of too many options/combinations, Julie. Numerus clausus wasn't invented just to give us another latin phrase to memorize ;) too much academic mumbo-jumbo here: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=250973 and relatedly here: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1028947 Beware of too many options/combinations, Julie. Numerus clausus wasn’t invented just to give us another latin phrase to memorize ;)

too much academic mumbo-jumbo here: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=250973 and relatedly here: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1028947

]]> By: julieamartin http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-19 julieamartin Sun, 19 Jul 2009 03:41:26 +0000 http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-19 Thanks. I will definitely check it out. What we may try to put together is a cluster of options for each typical clause. Say you have an indemnity clause and option A is purely copyright and trade secrets, option B includes US patents too, and option C is worldwide and all types of ip. Or depending on how many variables that ends up with (like is it validly issued US patents? or validly issued US patents as of the Effective Date?), could have a set of 6 or 10 licenses that are varying degrees of risk allocation. Not sure what is best, which is why looking at first drafter will help formulate possible approaches. I believe Oracle tried to get some momentum around such a project a few years back and am looking into their experience so as not to reinvent the wheel. Thanks. I will definitely check it out. What we may try to put together is a cluster of options for each typical clause. Say you have an indemnity clause and option A is purely copyright and trade secrets, option B includes US patents too, and option C is worldwide and all types of ip. Or depending on how many variables that ends up with (like is it validly issued US patents? or validly issued US patents as of the Effective Date?), could have a set of 6 or 10 licenses that are varying degrees of risk allocation. Not sure what is best, which is why looking at first drafter will help formulate possible approaches.

I believe Oracle tried to get some momentum around such a project a few years back and am looking into their experience so as not to reinvent the wheel.

]]> By: Daniel Einspanjer http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-18 Daniel Einspanjer Sun, 19 Jul 2009 01:13:06 +0000 http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-18 Julie, I sent this link to Harvey a while back. It is a community library of clauses and contract forms. I thought it was really neat and I *think* it seems to be along the lines of what you were asking about. http://www.firstdrafter.com/ Julie,

I sent this link to Harvey a while back. It is a community library of clauses and contract forms. I thought it was really neat and I *think* it seems to be along the lines of what you were asking about.
http://www.firstdrafter.com/

]]> By: julieamartin http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-14 julieamartin Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:48:01 +0000 http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-14 I will definitely keep you posted and would love to have you be part of the effort! I will definitely keep you posted and would love to have you be part of the effort!

]]> By: Shauna http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-13 Shauna Tue, 14 Jul 2009 05:43:46 +0000 http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-13 I too am interested in opportunities to collaborate with other lawyers and the initial project ideas you mentioned intrigue me. As you mentioned, there are plenty of examples of non-representational projects that allow lawyers to collaborate with each other or share legal knowledge with non-lawyers. This could involve making online legal tools and resources. The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press, for example, has a Freedom of Information Act generator [http://www.rcfp.org/foialetter/index.php]. They also put out a fairly useful online Open Government Guide [http://www.rcfp.org/ogg/index.php]. Projects like the guide involve discrete legal issues that a person can own and update. Those kinds of projects can be done without creating an attorney-client relationship and its attendant obligations. I also think you will find that lawyers out there are interested in contributing. Not all lawyers work in large firms that offer pro bono opportunities. In my case, I work for a judge and so face restrictions on the type of pro bono legal work I can do. Even with those restrictions, however, I have been able to volunteer sharing legal information with non-lawyers. Keep me posted, because I would love to do more. I too am interested in opportunities to collaborate with other lawyers and the initial project ideas you mentioned intrigue me. As you mentioned, there are plenty of examples of non-representational projects that allow lawyers to collaborate with each other or share legal knowledge with non-lawyers. This could involve making online legal tools and resources. The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press, for example, has a Freedom of Information Act generator [http://www.rcfp.org/foialetter/index.php]. They also put out a fairly useful online Open Government Guide [http://www.rcfp.org/ogg/index.php]. Projects like the guide involve discrete legal issues that a person can own and update. Those kinds of projects can be done without creating an attorney-client relationship and its attendant obligations.

I also think you will find that lawyers out there are interested in contributing. Not all lawyers work in large firms that offer pro bono opportunities. In my case, I work for a judge and so face restrictions on the type of pro bono legal work I can do. Even with those restrictions, however, I have been able to volunteer sharing legal information with non-lawyers. Keep me posted, because I would love to do more.

]]> By: julieamartin http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-12 julieamartin Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:44:50 +0000 http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-12 Hi, Luis. Good luck on the bar and I look forward to discussions on this point after you reemerge! And I especially look forward to your arrival later in the year so we can join forces on these points. Cheers! Hi, Luis. Good luck on the bar and I look forward to discussions on this point after you reemerge! And I especially look forward to your arrival later in the year so we can join forces on these points.

Cheers!

]]> By: Business Law Attorneys, Atlanta Business Attorneys and Lawyers | Atlanta Georgia Business Attorneys http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-11 Business Law Attorneys, Atlanta Business Attorneys and Lawyers | Atlanta Georgia Business Attorneys Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:14:10 +0000 http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-11 [...] Or reaching out to community groups, Law students, Lawyers, or even Lawmakers or Business leaders to educate about open source or open discussions about alternative ways of thinking about ip rights. Coming up with the projects is part … Lawyers as a Community? « Julie Martin’s Blog [...] [...] Or reaching out to community groups, Law students, Lawyers, or even Lawmakers or Business leaders to educate about open source or open discussions about alternative ways of thinking about ip rights. Coming up with the projects is part … Lawyers as a Community? « Julie Martin’s Blog [...]

]]> By: julieamartin http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-10 julieamartin Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:45:45 +0000 http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-10 Thanks for that tip and link. It does look like an organization with similar interests. I will definitely make sure we connect with them. Thanks for that tip and link. It does look like an organization with similar interests. I will definitely make sure we connect with them.

]]> By: Luis http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-9 Luis Thu, 09 Jul 2009 22:02:47 +0000 http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-9 (Nothing of substance, just forgot to subscribe by email the first time ;) (Nothing of substance, just forgot to subscribe by email the first time ;)

]]> By: luis http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-8 luis Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:46:04 +0000 http://julieamartin.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/lawyers-as-a-community/#comment-8 I expect Harvey has already pointed out, but I just wanted to say that I'm also very interested in the question of peer production of legal 'goods'. I wish I had more time to respond to your post in depth right now, but that late July date with the bar examiners keeps distracting me. :) I've got this post marked, though, and hopefully I'll be able to write in some depth on it in August (and of course discuss it in a lot of depth after I start.) The nutshell version is that I think it is achievable. There are examples of it already happening- NYLS is 'open sourcing' their Google Books amicus brief, OSI has some lawyer involvement in their licensing process, and the GPLv3 license rewrite involved a huge number of cross-collaborations among lawyers and non-lawyers alike. But building a sustainable community, and not just a series of one-offs, is going to require good tools, well-chosen projects (at least at first), breaking a lot of bad habits learned in law school and in firms, and maybe a well-researched ethics opinion or two from time to time :) Anyway, look forward to discussing this with you (and many others) to the greatest extent I can after the bar, and definitely on a regular basis come December. I expect Harvey has already pointed out, but I just wanted to say that I’m also very interested in the question of peer production of legal ‘goods’. I wish I had more time to respond to your post in depth right now, but that late July date with the bar examiners keeps distracting me. :) I’ve got this post marked, though, and hopefully I’ll be able to write in some depth on it in August (and of course discuss it in a lot of depth after I start.)

The nutshell version is that I think it is achievable. There are examples of it already happening- NYLS is ‘open sourcing’ their Google Books amicus brief, OSI has some lawyer involvement in their licensing process, and the GPLv3 license rewrite involved a huge number of cross-collaborations among lawyers and non-lawyers alike. But building a sustainable community, and not just a series of one-offs, is going to require good tools, well-chosen projects (at least at first), breaking a lot of bad habits learned in law school and in firms, and maybe a well-researched ethics opinion or two from time to time :)

Anyway, look forward to discussing this with you (and many others) to the greatest extent I can after the bar, and definitely on a regular basis come December.

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